BURNING SPEAR
Interviewed by Jesse I -- March 2000

This interview was conducted by phone prior to Burning Spear's April tour of Australia.

JESSE: Right now I'm joined on the line by a man regarded by many as the greatest living singer of reggae music. He's been with reggae from the early days, and he's held strong from day one until now, never straying from the roots path. It is my great honor to welcome to the show, Winston Rodney, the man known as Burning Spear. Thank you for joining us here on Chant Down Babylon.

BURNING SPEAR: Yes I.

J: Firstly, let me congratulate you on your recent achievement. After many years of nominations you were finally awarded a Grammy a few weeks ago.

BS: Thank you.

J: What are your feelings on winning the Grammy?

BS: Well, there's no unusual feelings you know. I've been winning since the first time I get started in this business. I think all my albums that was nominated… I see them as winning albums. It's 8 times since I've been nominate, and y'know, I became the winner in the reggae category on the 2 nd of the 23 rd , this 2000. It's good to be a winner, at least someone recognize what I've been doing. People have been recognizing what I've been doing from a longer time, but this is another level of recognition. I think it's good.

J: Well, of course the winning album is your latest release, Calling Rastafari out on the Heartbeat label. I've got to say, I really enjoyed the album, I think it's one of your best in recent times. It says on the back that you've rejuvenated, and I think it does have a very fresh sound; it's like you took some time off and came back with renewed vigor. Did you take a different approach to recording this album, or do you have a standard way of producing an album?

BS: Well, it's just a standard y'know. Each time I go in the studio it's my duty to really come with something stronger than before. Y'know, I'm also working on a new album, possibly it could be stronger than this one also.

J: Like most of your recent albums this one was recorded at the Grove studios in Ocho Rios. What are the vibes like there around recording time?

BS: Recording time is nice y'know. This make about the fourth or the fifth album I record back at Grove studio and I have a nice time, and a good working relationship with the musicians, and the people who are there when I'm doing my recording. It's a good vibes y'know.

J: Okay. How do the sessions there compare to the early days back in Kingston ?

BS: Well, y'know, we have so many things now. Early on you didn't have so many stuff in the studio. Now we have so many different stuff to work with and play around with. It's more easy for me, dealing with Grove studio. Early on I would have to drive to Kingston ; I was living in the parish of St Ann . And Grove studio is in the parish of St Ann . It's a lot of different.

J: Right. Well if we can go right back now to the early days, I understand it was Bob Marley who sort of helped you get your start in the music business?

BS: Yes, I get started in 1969, and Bob was the one who told me about Studio One.

J: I understand you met him on the side of the road, in the parish?

BS: Yes, in the same parish. I met him in St Ann , he was going to his farm or something like that, some farm or cultivation. And we bump into each other, and we were there talking and reasoning, and I asked him how I could get started, where could I go, and he told me about Studio One. And I been working since that time.

J: Yes I. Well, if you can please tell us, what was it like for you growing up in St Ann?

BS: Well I grew up as any other kid y'know, normal kid. Do all the right things any young person would be doing well you're coming up. I was there rubbing shoulders with everybody else.

J: Okay. How did you actually learn to sing, or what made you decide you were going to be a reggae singer in the first place?

BS: Well, I wasn't a person who learned to sing y'know. Singing is a thing where it's born with you. And it take you a time before you gonna identify that within you. I think that is how it really came about with me.

J: How did you feel about moving to Kingston to record?

BS: In the earlier times, Kingston was where you'd have to go, everybody would have to go to Kingston to do recording in the earlier times. You didn't have so many studio outside Kingston . Now it's different. But nevertheless, I did have to make it possible at all times to be there when my recording time come around.

J: Right. When you went to Kingston, did you know people there, did you stay with people… what sort of…

BS: To be honest, y'know… the musicians, like, it's really the studio you a go. It's not like you're on the street and you have to associate with people. Most of the people I would be knowing when I go to Kingston is people who is at the studio.

J: I've heard a lot about the auditioning process that Coxsone Dodd put his singers through. How hard was it for you to get a break at studio one?

BS: Well, you know, to be truthful… never so hard y'know. But then again, it was a lot of hard work. Once I've been there, and I do what I have to do, they did like what I was doing. That was it. But you were there, and it was like a musical college. I know for sure, nobody was getting anything financially from whatsoever we were doing, musically.

J: Well, the first song you recorded for Coxsone, I heard that was Door Peep, is that right?

BS: Yes.

J: I've got to say, that's an amazingly powerful song, it's one of my favorites. I open the show here every week on Chant Down Babylon with the line from the chorus where you sing “chant down on babylon”. If you can tell us, in your words, what exactly does it mean to chant down babylon?

BS: Well, babylon could be anyone y'know. Or babylon could be any man. It's a system.

J: So when you were singing to chant down babylon, it's bringing down babylon with the power of reggae music?

BS: It's just chanting down the system. The system wherein it's not good for people. The system where it's holding back people. The system wherein it's corrupting the mind of people. The system where it's turning people against people.

J: I guess it was around this time that you also took on the name Burning Spear, is that right?

BS: Oh, the name was there before I go to Studio One. The name came from Kenya. From the first republic president of Kenya which was Jomo Kenyatta. Jomo Kenyatta was called Burning Spear.

J: Why did you decide to name yourself after him?

BS: Well, y'know, as an African Jamaican, and the kind of music I was standing up for, the kind of music I was presenting people… y'know, some elderly person heard I when I was singing, turned to me and said they think the name for me should be Burning Spear. So I didn't know anything about Jomo Kenyatta, I was told about Jomo Kenyatta by an elderly person. That is how the name came about. I decided to use the name as an African Jamaican brother.

J: At the time, what sort of reception did your Studio One albums get in the reggae community?

BS: Well, first… all of our music… our first step off…of recognition really coming from Jamaica y'know. All of us as musicians. Jamaica is the founder for the music. And when we get started, we get started in Jamaica, and Jamaican people is the first people that really hear us, or listen to our music. And the music grow along the way, and require a wider level of recognition. So the music leave outside of Jamaica and became international, in different countries.

J: Right. From what I understand it was really the Marcus Garvey album for Jack Ruby, that was the one that really pushed you internationally. Would you say that?

BS: Well, I agree. That is the first album I really get touring off. Marcus Garvey and Man In The Hills . That is where my international recognition get started from, to be honest.

J: Well, I've heard some people say that… that album was one of the most popular after Bob Marley's reggae, and the only thing keeping it back from being just as popular was the fact that it was so militant, and so uncompromising… what do you think about that?

BS: Well, y'know, people feel the music and people have all rights to say the way they think, or the way they see tings runnin'. So, y'know, possible maybe it was so. <laughs> Y'know, the people think it was so, and the people support whatsoever we do… so I think they were hitting the nail on the head.

J: Well, when you left Studio One, you took a bit of a break from recording until you started working for Jack Ruby. What were you doing in the time you weren't recording there?

BS: Well, I was getting lyrics and melodies together. Before I run into Jack. And y'know, after that, Jack heard about me, and check me out, and I go into business with Jack by doing these two albums, Marcus Garvey and Man In The Hills .

J: Okay. Well, as well as introducing you to the big audience, the Marcus Garvey album also introduced Marcus Garvey to a great audience. I'm sure that without that album, there would have been a lot of people in the world that had never even heard of Marcus Garvey. How did Marcus come to mean so much to you that you named the album after him?

BS: Well, Marcus Garvey was also an African Jamaican who was standing up for something constructive. Marcus Garvey is the man who opened the eyes of black folks, by talking about black consciousness, and black development. Marcus Garvey was a man with a plan, an aim, and a direction. Marcus Garvey was talking about Africa for Africans, for those abroad and those at home. He declared to the world, Africa must be free. So Marcus Garvey is a man with a philosophy. The philosophy of Marcus Garvey still lives on. I became the first person who present Marcus Garvey within and through the music. Then after that many other people started to do the same thing. People start to see the importance of Marcus Garvey.

J: Well these days, people are still talking about Marcus Garvey all the time, and praising his works and his ideas, and we've also got in the recent years, the rise of the Bobo Rastas… people like Sizzla, and Anthony B, and so on… they often talk about Marcus Garvey in a holy trinity alongside Selassie I and King Emmanuel. What do you think about people talking about Marcus Garvey in this way?

BS: Well, of course. It's not a problem. It's good!

J: Yes.

BS: At least they start to get the understanding about who was Marcus Garvey and what he stand up for. So it create a strength around the concept and the philosophy of Marcus Garvey.

J: Right. Well also with the Bobo Rastas, there seems to be a bit of tension developing in some areas, with the “fire bun” lyrics, and the aggressive stance they have. Do you think there's any problem with the aggressive way that they present things?

BS: Originally, it's not supposed to be a problem y'know. It's one Rasta y'know. Regardless… Bobo, Twelve Tribes, Nyahbinghi, Shanti, African Federation… one Rasta. One Rasta regardless, means one Rasta. All of us saying Jah, all of us saying His Majesty. So all of us supposed to be moving together, moving in the same direction. No competition. Supposed to be one Rasta, one liberty.

J: Right. I guess that's what you're really saying in “Calling Rastafari”, in the song itself.

BS: That's what I'm saying.

J: Getting back to the early days, when did you decide that Rastafari was the path for you to walk?

BS: It's not when I decided to be y'know. I born as a Rasta. Y'know, it take I a time before I could identify that Jah is within I, and I'm here to do a work, as Jah wish. And that was in the same time 1969. I start to feel the vibes and see the light of Rastafari.

J: After your albums for Jack Ruby you began to produce yourself. What made you decide to do that?

BS: Well, it was something I was thinking about, and I was working on it. Y'know, even before I bumped into Jack. I was working on my productions, Burning Music productions. After Jack contract expired, I decided not to do anything else for nobody. I decided to move up for myself, and start to exercise my production.

J: Well the results were really great; I understand you produced the Dry and Heavy album, and then Social Living , which is one of my all-time favorite albums.

BS: I produced a lot of good albums.

J: Okay. One of my favorites is Social Living – I think it's got a really heavy dread sound. How did you get such a heavy sound on that album?

BS: Well, it's arrangement y'know. Most of these albums played by various musicians, so each musician comes with their own ideas and their own feel.

J: Well one of my favorite songs on the album is “Jah No Dead”. In the film Rockers you give a fantastic acapella version of “Jah No Dead” where you're sitting in the darkness by the waterside. Is there any story behind that performance?

BS: Well, they contact me. Y'know, they contact me and they thinking that part would be the right part for I to play. And I play my part, and play it the best I could, by singing “Jah No Dead”.

J: I've got to say, that's a fantastic performance. Getting back to the more recent times, you seem to have a pretty strong relationship with Heartbeat records these days. I suspect you're seeing a lot more rewards these days, a lot more royalties than you originally received.

BS: I been in business with Heartbeat over a period of time now. To be honest, y'know, we have some ups and down times, but I think it's one of the best independent companies in the music business, especially dealing with reggae. It's just leave up to them to work hard and try to sell more albums, and the more albums they can sell, the more business we will get involved in.

J: Well, what do you think about the rest of the modern reggae business these days, and the state of the music coming out of Jamaica these days?

BS: Well, the state of the music will always be the way it is y'know, and it will improve also. Regardless, the music mightn't be so good, at least it being promoted. And once you promote, whatsoever you promote, people will see it and people gonna buy it. A person can be promoting something where it's not good, but promotion sell whatsoever you selling.

J: Well, these days you're living in the USA as a base right?

BS: Yeah.

J: Many would say that's sort of right in the middle of babylon. How do you feel living life as a Rasta in America?

BS: You see, the whole world is babylon y'know. And babylon is everywhere, as I just said before. Babylon is a system, y'know. Where you is at today, babylon is there too. It's a system. Y'know. Living in New York is business. And the whole world come to this country and do business. I'm here because of business.

J: Well as well as continuing to record, you also tour regularly, and you work amazingly hard. Age doesn't seem to have slowed you down at all. How do you balance touring and recording, and still find time to rest?

BS: Well, touring come at a different time from recording. So when there's recording, there's no touring. When there's touring there's no recording. It's a separation.

J: And do you get time to rest in there somewhere?

BS: Well, when I'm not touring I'm home. Taking care of other business. When I'm recording I'm in the studio.

J: Okay. Well, I've gotta tell you, I've never seen the Melbourne reggae massive as excited as we are about your coming shows. It's been a long time coming, but we're finally going to see the Spear burning down under. I've heard many great reports about Burning Spear concerts, but in your words what can the people expect when they see you hear?

BS: Well the people should expect a burning experience will take place in Australia. I'm looking forward to seeing the people come out a be a part of that burning experience.

J: Yes, we're looking forward to being a part of it as well. Do you have any closing words for the Melbourne massive?

BS: Well, my closing words is that I will be there. For the first time. And I will do my best. And I hope and I know, people will appreciate whatsoever I will be doing.